Only because I have heard it soooo many times and I used it in a scenario on the politics forum, now I bring it to you here. It is a scriptural question. It is a pertinent question. It is a timely question. It is a question we will all have to answer and maybe sooner than we think and certainly we do not like to think about it.

Question: When will you say no to the Federal or State government? What will they have to take from you before you stand up and say no? How far will the encroachment have to go before you are ready to go to prison or die for your rights?

The standard blase' answer of most preachers is, "they aren't telling me what I can or can't preach so...I'll obey". I am sure glad that our forefathers didn't have that attitude. We'd all be eating crumpets and drinking tea under the Union Jack right now if they didn't have a boundary line.
Is this answer acceptable to you? Maybe I should say is this what your preacher's answer is?
When they take our right to assemble freely, is that worth dieing for to you? Would you go to jail for the rest of your life for that right?
When they take your right to be secure in your personal possessions and complete search and seizures without a warrant, it that worth your life or spending the rest of your life in prison for?
When they decide that the deficit is so high that they want 45% or 50% or 60% of your wages without asking you and they automatically take it out, is that worth going to jail for or dieing for?
Do you consider this a scriptural issue? Do you have any opinion at all here?
Will it only be spiritual issues that you deny the Federal or State on? (Be careful, this is a trick question)
I have heard that some folks believe that the Dali-bama will be our last president. If this were to happen I guarantee these issues are issues that we would have to face.

I am alive and on this planet for the sole purpose of bringing honor, glory, and pleasure to God, and to spread the gospel to every creature. Apart from this purpose, I have no purpose to breathe. For this reason, I feel it is sin to do anything that would jeopardize or halt my ability to fulfill my purpose.

There are two words in today's world that make me cringe more often than not because of how they are used. One is "rights" and the other "entitlement".

Paul was a Jew but also a Roman citizen. As a Roman citizen, it was Paul's "right" to appeal to Caesar for judgment, hoping to be delivered from the Jews which sought to kill him.

Acts 25:[9] But Festus, willing to do the Jews a pleasure, answered Paul, and said, Wilt thou go up to Jerusalem, and there be judged of these things before me?
[10] Then said Paul, I stand at Caesar's judgment seat, where I ought to be judged: to the Jews have I done no wrong, as thou very well knowest.
[11] For if I be an offender, or have committed any thing worthy of death, I refuse not to die: but if there be none of these things whereof these accuse me, no man may deliver me unto them. I appeal unto Caesar.
[12] Then Festus, when he had conferred with the council, answered, Hast thou appealed unto Caesar? unto Caesar shalt thou go.

Acts 26:[31] And when they were gone aside, they talked between themselves, saying, This man doeth nothing worthy of death or of bonds.
[32] Then said Agrippa unto Festus, This man might have been set at liberty, if he had not appealed unto Caesar.

Rather than putting faith in God to deliver him from his enemies, Paul stood up for his "rights" as a Roman citizen. They were willing to set him at liberty so Paul could have continued his missionary work in freedom, but because he exercised his "rights" the matter was taken out of their hands. Paul's ministry was over. He spent the rest of his life in prison in Rome until he was ultimately put to death. Yes, God still used Paul while in prison through divine inspiration to write the Pauline Epistles to the churches, but Paul could no longer fulfill the great commission.

The Pharisee's tried to end Jesus's ministry by trying to incite Jesus into "civil disobedience".

Mathew 22:17] Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?
[18] But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?
[19] Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.
[20] And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?
[21] They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.
[22] When they had heard these words, they marvelled, and left him, and went their way.

As wicked as our current government is becoming, we are still a very far cry from what the government was that Jesus's lived under with Caesar in rule. But did Jesus's advocate rebellion against the wicked rulership of their time? No, you never find anywhere in the scriptures any reference to civil disobedience but you do find plenty in scripture that commands obedience to our government authority.

Rom 13:[1] Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
[2] Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
[3] For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

1 Timothy 2:[1] I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
[2] For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
[3] For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
[4] Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

So to answer your question on where my line is drawn, it is drawn only at any commandment from an authority that is in direct conflict with the law of God. Rebellion that would put me in jail or death against my taxation rate, ability to own firearms, the security of my material possessions from seizure, or anything that is short of a direct conflict with God's law prevents me from fulfilling my "prime directive" as a christian.

Bro Garry

To quote Paul is a good point. I understand that Paul was told by the Lord that he would suffer and die in Rome and that he was to go there by God's choice. So, Paul used the Roman legal system to get there. Knowing the law of the land, Paul who was a freeborn man and he readily told everyone so, used the appeals system that was already in place in the Roman judiciary. Paul knew the law. Paul used the law. In fact Paul didn't use anything like CLA (today's legal answer for preachers across the land), he told the magistrate that he would gladly answer for himself.

It seems and correct me if I am wrong that you believe that Paul was incorrect for using his "rights". If I am reading your post correctly, it seems that you are advising that Paul did not fulfill his "prime directive" because he went to jail. Please advise.

Did John the Baptist fail the "prime directive" by going to jail?
Did the Baptists of the colonies who refused to pay taxes to support ecclesiastical governments failing their "prime directive"?
Did they lose thier ability to work, lose thier farmlands, homes and even go to jail in disobedience to God?

The last question I have is: Were the patriots of the 13 Colonies wrong before God and His holy Word to break away from the laws of the land and form a new nation?

John the Baptist went to jail for rightfully preaching against sin. If it ever becomes a "hate crime" for me to preach against sin, such as sodomy or abortion, then you can visit me in jail. There are things that are in direct conflict with God's laws that are worth going to jail for and dying for, but it better be for a violation against God's law.

What are you willing to suffer for the cause of Christ? What "freedoms" or sacrifices are you willing to give up so that the gospel can be given? When a U.S. citizen is called to a mission field to preach the gospel, is it wrong for him to give up his "rights" as an American citizen in order to follow the laws of the country that is his field so that the gospel can be preached to it's people?

If I am willing to give up my liberty or life for something that will end my ministry, I sure want to be sure that it is something I have no problem giving an account for, to my Lord. I don't want to tell the Lord, "I am sorry my ministry could not continue, but my government wouldn't allow me to keep some of my possessions, and they were taxing me to much".

Bro Garry

Brother Garry . . . AMEN!

Well Said!

Bro Garry,
I approach this subject with respect for you and with the understanding that I had the same opinion as you at an earlier day in my life and someone helped me to see a few points that I had not considered. Let me start with the scriptures:

Micah 6:8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?
Eccl. 12: 12 And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.
13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
Rom 13: 8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Gal 5: 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
The scriptures I have quoted denote and require all who name the name of Christ Jesus to remember our duty to obedience to God in righteousness and love for our neighbor. How can one love his neighbor and see him suffer without offering aid? How can one love his neighbor and watch him taken from his house for jail and family suffer without offering aid?
I ask this question generally and not specifically to Bro Garry. Is the scripture not specifically clear in the requirement of a man to care and provide for his family? Does the scripture not tell us that we are worse than infidels if we do not do what we can? What of personal protection? How can you protect yourself and your family if you are not armed? (I know we have more common sense to know the civil authorities cannot protect us.) If that right is stripped from you and you no longer have that ability because of a wicked civil government are you to bow and allow your family to perish? We are not in Germany. We are not in China. We are in America, where the right to protect ourselves was won by the blood of our own people. Our basic God given, constitutional guaranteed rights are still worth dying for. Before God, they are worth dying for.
Now let me say that I believe in witnessing as much as anyone. Door knocking, passing out tracks, street preaching and we do all of these, but this is not the whole duty of man. It is not our only priority. It is a high priority, yes, but not the only priority. The commandment given in Mt 28:18 is the marching orders for the Church of God. (The Baptist Church today) It is the church that the Lord Jesus died for. (Eph 5) We cannot disregard the rest of the requirement. We do not have the right to pick and choose which commandments we are to obey. They all apply. We are obligated and will answer for them all. Even still, is not our right to public assembly and freedom of speech intrinsically related to the spread of the gospel? I bring to you a situation that our forbears were faced with as the testimonial is written for posterity and I generally relate:
Three men of good credit taken from their homes, on the 26th of January, belonging to a larger and regular Baptist society in Chelmsford, Mass, were seized upon for not paying state taxes (ecclesiastical) though they were named on a list presented to the civil authorities for exemption from same, they spent the night in a cold, damp jail. One was above 80 yrs old, another very infirm in body and the last had no one left at home to care for his family’s needs, yet they in the middle of the winter were carried to the Concord jail. (Information taken from “An Appeal To The Public For Religious Liberty”, Isaac Backus, 1773 AD)
This is only one such incident in which the whole would be in the thousands if enumerated as happening in our land. Such incidents like this and of many varied circumstances and with beatings and even death, were the standard fare of the day. Men of character, Christians and as stated, Baptists who would not pay their state taxes, regulated and assessed against them. Bro Backus goes on to complete the treatise remonstrating that what was happening was not right before God and cites other incidents of tyranny that Baptists would not bow to.
Now the next dear Brother who posted after Bro. Garry stated “Well said.” But Bro Garry, you gave me your opinion without answering my questions. I repeat.
Were our Baptist Brethren in rebellion before God for fighting a war against the King of England, to break away and form their own country and government?
Were our Baptist Brethren in rebellion for not seeking state licensure and/or paying their taxes and going to jail, being beaten, and even going to their deaths in America? Please advise.

I gave a long a thorough answer to those questions in the "Would You Have Signed?" forum topic that you started. Rather than copying that response here, since it is long, I will refer you back to my answer there.

Bro Garry

Thank you Bro Garry. I looked at it again and I realize that I am in one accord with you on your position as related in that thread. A very good answer.